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Saturday, June 03, 2006

The chess of relationships

Years ago, I used to spend hours playing chess. I also read some poems by Keats etc as well as read some more recent books on relationships. I have also had the chance to learn about the popular culture of dating and the dynamics of relationships. My take on the whole issue was that most modern relationships are like a game of chess. People mull over their moves, they brainstorm about the other person's plans and then they make their moves all the time worrying about what the other person is going to do next. You can give these things the labels of "element of mystery", "my dignity" and "your dignity" but in the end, it is essentially reduced to a game of chess. I was well aware of the element of chess in modern day relationships before I started my last relationship. That does not mean, I fully agreed with it.

To me, liking somebody does not need to be guised under a mist of stoicism. If I like something or somebody, I am not going to be afraid or embarrassed to say that. If I like something enough, I think I will get it. If I don't, then it was never meant to be. But I am not going to waste my time thinking about when and how I am going to say what. I also don't think relationship need to be like a game of poker where God forbid, the other person should never see my cards.

I do understand that perhaps my notion of relationships is too idealistic. I mean, why should relationships be devoid of all the guile and ambiguity that surrounds us in other walks of life? I am no expert on relationships, but I think it is plausible that they are nothing but a game of cut-throat chess where one party is trying to win against the others. Gone are the days when a suitor will serenade his lover by singing a love song under her window. Sad but true.

I am just sad that when God finally sent somebody my way, He also sent a bunch of irreconcilable issues. I just wish that I had fallen in love with some nice Indian Sikh girl and had married her.

I do agree with some of you who think that this blog has kind of been beating around the bush. I had felt that several weeks ago. I think the blog has served its purpose of raising some awareness about the discrimination of turbaned Sikh men. Clearly, I can't think of changing anybody's minds. That was not my intent anyway.

In two months, I will turn 28. I have decided that I am never going to date again. My objective of dating was to find a wife and not for fun. Clearly, this process is more painful than the arranged marriage route.

I am now working on a blog related to Medicine and will be spending most of my time on that blog. Perhaps, it will keep me occupied in a more fruitful way.

50 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Harry,
Why are you giving up? Like I always say: When one door closes the other open. Who know's who could be standing on the other end?
Don't give up on love. And how you said about "the time has gone when a lover seranades his sweetheart" your worng. I met my boyfriend 9 months ago and he does sing to me. It may be cheesy but it's cute and I love it. Sometimes when I get back from work i'll find a bunch of roses on my porch. Guys still kno how to be romantic. I believe that you'll find that special someone. Really you will. Even tho it doesn't seem like it now. Take care,
Ms. H

9:12 AM, June 04, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Harry,

I'm sorry to hear that you're so disillusioned with dating, but I think you're wrong to believe that your idea of an honest, sincere romance is too idealistic. A lot of people treat dating like some cut-throat game, but many others actually take their relationships seriously.

From what I gather from your blog, you're new to the dating scene, having focused on building your career instead. I think nearly everyone becomes disillusioned with romance at one time or another when we find reality to be contrary to our expectations. God knows I have, and I'm only 24! Waheguru sends us obstacles so we can learn, right?

Anyway, good luck to you on whichever way you choose to find your lady love.

Cheers,
"Bitsy"

11:55 AM, June 04, 2006  
Anonymous incorruptible dream said...

We all don't leave you in peace at all right?
If the guy is saying I am going to date than everybody is like “No don't do that- instead look for nice Sikh girl"
If he says “I am going give up this dating thing" - than everybody is like don’t give up on love and don't be so disillusioned"
Poor Harry! He can never make his readers happy! :)

Though, I am looking forward for this blog related to medicine. Change is always good!

“When one door closes and usually we look at that closed door for so long that we forget to see another door has already opened for us"
This is always true!

So you turn 28 in two months- you are so young!

2:55 PM, June 04, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Harry,
I hope you keep this blog still open even tho your starting a new one related to medicine. It's a great focal point for everyone who reads this blog because through your stories people find their own and relate to your situations. Plz keep the blog open!!!!
Ms A

3:15 PM, June 04, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

please leave the URL to your medicine blog with us.

11:00 PM, June 04, 2006  
Anonymous ash said...

hi harry
this is my first reading of your blog .i went as far as the last 10 postings.
i am sorry about your breakup.you'll survive . trust me.
you'll believe in love again.just give yourself some time.
about your turban issue i really agree with you.well by the way i am a sikh girl and live in india.and if this brings some solace, let me tell you that things are the same in india if not worse.i have so many sikh girlfriends and most of them dont wanna marry a turbaned guy.

but i have to ask you something,have you ever been attracted to a sikh girl who does not cut her hair..........well anywhere? you know no eyebrows, upperlips and well......the other parts?
if your answer is no, you have absolutely no right to raise this issue.because what a turdan is to a sikh boy,body hair are to sikh girl. if you do not like a practicing sikh girl, as they call it, how can you expect to be liked as a practicing sikh boy???

and if your answer is a yes,well , then i compeletly identify with the issue you have raised.

hope to get a reply from you and others who keep track of your blog soon.

2:23 AM, June 05, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ash, i think there is a little variety with those who keep hair. The two main ones are that some keep hair because they truly believe in their religion and carry the Sikh spirit and for these women with kes are only beautiful, and there others who have kept hair because it is something that their parents told them to do and although they look like Sikhs, they want to be live as the popular culture around them and as if they have no turban.

For some reason, the business class Sikhs tend to be very diligent in keeping turbans but not much is expected of girls. This type of thiking is growing in other classes as well.

3:27 AM, June 05, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ash,
Women are supposed to be sensual and men Rugged ! A lot of men around the world actually most actors in US support a beared of somekind and are generally admired by women! ... I dont think women anywhere who support body hair are admired by men!
And for ur Kind information the Only Indian male model ever to have featured in the worlds most High profile Fashion Magazine "Vogue ", was a sardar with a Turban and beared.. Vikram Chatwal had a 15 page cut out in Vogue..

I dont think women with arm -pit harir would ever feature there .....

Yes I agree to u to a certain extent but ur analogy was a bit far-fetched!

Tab

7:51 PM, June 05, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the last anon,
dude we are talking about this a very differnt context here, i get ur point, but thats not what ash meant.

9:15 PM, June 05, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the last anon,
Turban is an accesory that can be removed in Bed!
And u trun into Antonia Bandares! :-)
Body hair on women stay!
sincerely!
Tab

10:27 PM, June 05, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In all europe women without armpit/leg hair are not liked and they are not considered adults/puberity, but this is different in North America, where women have to shave even legs.

Hairiness which is considered a sign of adulthood in europe is considered a sign of dirtiness in North-america.

I read this in an English Research Article.

I think european cultural wisdom is right because it is truth that hair comes when a man or a woman pass their childhood.

On the other hand American cultural wisdomm has nothing to with the dirtiness because a shampooed hair is as clean as any other part of our body. We don't cut other parts of our bodies to clean them, so why cut hair alone to look clean. Why not shampoo and perfume them as any other part of our bodies. Clean Shiny hair are the most beautiful thing to behold in our body.

10:42 PM, June 05, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, the same Vikram Chatwal that appeared in the Vogue as a turbaned and a bearded sikh doesn't seem to hesitate to cut his hair and then let it grow back again (?) according to his needs. Did you realise this mr Chatwal plays the daddy of the little girl in leading role in ek ajnabee? The guy with no hint of beard and short cut hair is indeed Chatwal. Quite disappointing really, especially if you watch the 'behind the scenes' video clip where, again, Chatwal sports a turban and a beard that probbaly measures about 1.2 mm in lenght. And in another interview, he proudly states that he's never cut his hair...

12:03 AM, June 06, 2006  
Anonymous ash said...

hi everyone
this is ash.
i think we have messed up the whole issue here.we are basically talking about the fact that sikh women do not like sikh boys with a turban and facial hair.
all i wanna say is that if a sikh girl does not respect her own body here,how in the hell do you expect her to respect yours,understand yours and love yours???
if a sikh girl removes her own body hair that means she does not like them and will not like to be seen supporting them.expecting this same girl to like body hair in her man is not practical.as simple as that.
but i think the answer to this whole debate is quite simple.what does your turban mean to you?is it an accesory added coz you have to or you want to?if you have to ........ then complaining that sikh girls dont dig turbanators is hypocrisy.well if you want to.......that means you are a true sikh.and if you are a true sikh you will like a sikh girl who is true to her religion i.e she keeps her body hair and respects them. if she respects her's,she will love yours too.
so it basically comes back to you.before complaining look deep inside.you will find all your answers.

1:30 AM, June 06, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the last poster. You should ideally look for someone who is most like you.

I am a turbaned sikh and I found a gursikh girl through one of these online dating sites(within 2 months). She is just awesome man! Shez the best thing that ever happened to me.

To the people who have previously claimed about an exodus of educated sikh girls from sikhism, she is a counterexample.. AND she is the prettiest person on earth :-p.

I did get all the crap that harry got (caste, turban etc.), but I also found enough girls who were more than happy to date a turbaned sikh.

7:34 AM, June 06, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Man or Women I dont know what to say!
Ash!
Men dont wax their body hair , whether cut serds or not .. and the ones who do are Gay! As far as facial hair .. atlease 15-20% of the living men around the world who can have it,, have it ! East asians are devoid of it ,,so they dont have a choice ..... heheh

9:21 AM, June 06, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

To Ash,

In Sikhism, there is no prohibition on cutting/shaving body hair, like armpits and facial hair on women.

Guru Gobind Singh says in his verse

If by keeping hair one can attain God, then all the animals and sheep should have attained God.

The only dictate is that "one must not dishonour her/his hair"

"guru ka sikh keshan di be-adbee na kare" (exact words of hukam nama 10th guru).

Be-adbee does not mean uncut hair, it means well groomed and well kept hair, long enough, manageable enough, short hair destroys human dignity and beauty, therefore keeping the hair short might be dishonour. Similarly keeping hair messy and unstyled might be dishonour.

Thus long, manageable, clean, well groomed and styled hair are consistent with "not dishonouring hair doctorine". Further triming them a little bit to give them good ahape and style may not be dishonour, but it may be an uplifting of their honour.

"G" who wrote comment on rehit, amrit and related issues in this blog.

I wear a turban and keep my beard flowing

9:31 AM, June 06, 2006  
Anonymous g said...

I am also in favour of premarital sex because it is consistent with "ika nari jattee hoy " doctrine.

The word "Nari" in this verse, does not mean wife here, but people have added it incorrectly.

G

9:38 AM, June 06, 2006  
Blogger Angad Singh said...

mr g ..

if u have so much guts to talk this kind of rubbish i dare to u state yr views and mention yr name and address and we shall see wht happens to you..

fateh
angad

5:07 AM, June 08, 2006  
Anonymous lol said...

harry are you a med student??

6:04 AM, June 08, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:39 AM, June 08, 2006  
Anonymous ash said...

to g
this is the first time i have read these kind of thoughts and i must say i am shocked.

to misquote gurbaani or to misquote its meaning is the biggest paap in sikhi.for your sake i hope you did it out of ignorance.

let me remind you that when you partake amrit the first thing that they forbid is to cut hair.if a person cuts even a single hair from his whole body then he has to take amrit again after paying tankhah ie he is levied punishment by the panj pyaras.that could be anything from social service to excommunication from religion depending upon the severity.

hair anywhere on the body has equal importance.they could be on your head or on your feet.

please dont publish such blasphemous thoughts to suit your own whims and fancies.

9:29 AM, June 08, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

To Ash,

You said,

"to misquote gurbaani or to misquote its meaning is the biggest paap in sikhi.for your sake i hope you did it out of ignorance."

This applies to you, because you misquoted gurbani when you said cutting hair on feet or any other part are forbidden.

Where is the evidence from gurbani for your claim ?

If you don't have any evidence, then you are starting your own religion, and not following Guru's hukam and religion.

If your evidence is "panj piyare", who are most of the times illeterate, then you are following their religion and not follwoing guru's religion.

I follow gurus who were either gifted or well trained in religion, history and languages.

To follow guru's religion, you have to give quotes from gurbani. I have given quotes from gurbani, read over again, to see again.

I stand by the guru's hukam that "guru ka sikh keshan di be-adbee na kare" (10th guru) and that if one can achieve God by keeping hair then animals who never cut their hair are the ones who should have attained God (10th guru).

Hair on feet are not "kesh", hair on other parts of body are called "rom". Their is no hukam with regard to rom, there is only hukam for kesh, with respect to ONLY Be-adbee , which is not equal to hair cut. Check the earlier post for details on this issue.

Thanks for your comment to my post , I appreciate your effort, but I respectfully disagree with them as they are not based on any evidence from gurbani, they are merely based on hearsay from five sikhs, who are not gurus, especially when they order something inconsistent with gurbani.

I request you only preach guru's religion and not your own religion or five Sikhs religion.

12:50 PM, June 08, 2006  
Anonymous Simran said...

"Angad,
Ass hole,

Here they are for you, the guts !

Mr G
S/o Guru Gobind Singh
Address: residing with father at present. "

Mr. G,
I am deeply hurt with following comment that you made on this blog. When did our Guru Ji addressed people with such nasty names. Isn't it ironic you claim to be S/o of Guru Gobind Singh and at the same time you address Angad Ji with very demeaning word.
There is no place for such words in our community.
Please first learn to respect people before you even consider yourself Sikh.

10:12 AM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Harry
In future is it possible you verify the comments before they are visible on your blog.
Your blog is really bringing out very negative side of people and as a blog administrator it is your duty to filter those negative comments.
I will appreciate your effort.

10:14 AM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

Simran ji,

Guru Gobind Singh says "Jabe Bann Lagyo , Tabeh Ross Jagyo".

Therefore, according to gurbani, an attack must be repelled with full force because preservation of life is very important. But I have tried to teach him a lesson only with words, such as asshole, without using violence like he did.

This man threatens people with murder, a murderer deserves even worse words. He asks people's addresses and threaten them with murder when he does not agree with threir views. This is what he said :

"if u have so much guts to talk this kind of rubbish i dare to u state yr views and mention yr name and address and we shall see wht happens to you.."

If he does not agree with people's views, he should counter them with evidence from gurbani rather than asking their addresses for criminal purpose.

Therefore he deserves worse than the title of asshole, he is an evil, a criminal and stupid man who calls gurbani a rubish.

11:02 AM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous Simran said...

"Guru Gobind Singh says "Jabe Bann Lagyo , Tabeh Ross Jagyo".

Therefore, according to gurbani, an attack must be repelled with full force because preservation of life is very important."

So, you are saying Gurubani tells us to attack people ( I am sorry I don't buy it because Guru Granth Sahib Ji is all about divine love).
Especially after 9/11 we don't need comments ( like these) to contradict the statement that Sikh religion is about love, tolerance and humility.

There is a way to engage in respectful discussion. Why didn't you ask Angad the reasons for threating you. Is it possible you misunderstood him?
Eitherway I think we ought to be respecful of other people.

You both ( G and Angad) have to show that you can engage in respectful dialogue.
Please stop quoting Gurubani to prove your points. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is in no way a scripture about dos and Do Nots. It is our Guru and we bow infront it with full respect. We contemplate on his sweet words and internalize it within our soul. Please don't reduce this holy scripture to one liners.

I am just making a humble request.

11:33 AM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

Simran ji,

Issue 1: self defense

Modern Law as well as gurbani permits self defense, that is, a person has right to preserve his/her life and whenever his life is threatened he/she has right to defend by using reasonable force.

Gurbani teaches love as our modern laws do, I agree with you, but in the face of threats to life, gurbani, as well as, modern laws permit us to repel force by force.

Please note that only self defense is allowed; we don't attack, if our life is not threatened, this would be illegal and against gurbani. Sikh religion preaches NON-VIOLENCE against environment, animals as well as humans, but "Jabe Bann lagyo, Tabe Ross jagyo" doctrine comes into play when violence is committed against a non violent person.

I disagree with your "one liner" statement that gurbani disallow self defense. Your statement has no basis in any law or gurbani.

If we allow your principle no one would have right to life and evil people will kill others with impunity; evil people will attack the property of hard workers; evil people will enslave nations and countries of other people, and rapes will reign supreme because evil people would know they will be loved for their actions rather than resisted

Your view is therefore very dangerous to the preservation of lives of others as it is inconsistent with laws and gurbani.

When 5th guru was martyred, our 6th guru took up arms to defend Sikhs; and the martyrdom of 9th guru resulted in 10th guru's embracing of arms for self defense and creation of Khalsa. According to you, 6th and 10th gurus were wrong. I respectfully disagree with you.

Issue 2: Did Angad's statement posed a threat to someone's life?

The answer is CLEAR and UNAMBIGUOUS "YES". Let anyone may not be mistaken that he asked for identity and address and threatened "we will see what will happen to you". He did not ask for address to send a love letter, for he could send when he says "we will see what will happen to you". He made his intentions clear enough.

2:14 PM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"According to you, 6th and 10th gurus were wrong."

I never said our gurus were wrong.

I wonder if human nature prompt us to make assumptions about others

8:28 PM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

Anon above , AKA Simran,

I reproduce here your words wherein you said anyone who attacks (in self defense) is wrong because gurbani teaches love.

I maintain attack or use of force is permitted in self defense only.

Since you did not make any exception so "anyone" includes 6th and 10 guru also who attacked in self defense. SO they were also wrong to attack in self defense according to you. After refering to a verse in my post, you said anyone who attacks (in self defense) is wrong :

"Guru Gobind Singh says "Jabe Bann Lagyo , Tabeh Ross Jagyo".

Therefore, according to gurbani, an attack must be repelled with full force because preservation of life is very important."

So, you are saying Gurubani tells us to attack people ( I am sorry I don't buy it because Guru Granth Sahib Ji is all about divine love).
Especially after 9/11 we don't need comments ( like these) to contradict the statement that Sikh religion is about love, tolerance and humility.

9:18 PM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

Simran ji or anon ji,

You state that use of force in self defense is not permitted because gurbani is all about love.

Since 6th and 10th guru used force in self defense, according to your principle they were wrong.

According to you anyone who uses force in self defense is wrong.

I respectfully disagree with you because there is no basis of your principle either in gurbani or in modern laws (which permit use of reasonable force in self defense).

Now you can see, I did not make any assumption because according to your principle 6th and 10th guru were wrong, if they had used force in self defense because gurbani is all about love.

9:30 PM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous Simran said...

Mr. G
I was refering to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and you refer to Dasam Granth Ji ( Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bani).
Again I say Guru Granth Sahib is a scripture about divine love. I just have problem with refering someobody with a nasty name and calling yourself son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Are we really sons and duaghters of Guru Gobind Singh Ji when we display arrogance and no respect for others. Our Guru Jis were without ego and we on the other hand are full of ego . The tragedy is that we fail to realize it. Instead we go around claiiming ourselves sons and duaghters of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Above all, our Guru Ji fought for justice, freedom, and equality.

10:02 PM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous Simran said...

Your life was not in danger with a online message. All you have to do is tell Angad " I think you are trying to threaten me and this in no way is a acceptable behavior"

Why call somebody ******* and at same time refer yourself son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?
For minute sit and think about what Guru Ji went through in his life. He never called people with such degrading names ( not even Aurangzab). Here you can't even handle an online comment in respectful way.

10:07 PM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

Simran ji,

I can give you evidence from Granth Sahib wherein you will find use of force principle in self defense: "Kabir, sura so pahchaneye jo lare din ke het, purja purja kat mare kaboh na chade khet."

So your claim that guru granth sahib is all about divine love (and not about use of force in self defense, truth and justice, has no basis either in guru granth sahib, or in dasam granth , nor in any modern laws.

Let me make it clear that dasam granth and guru granth are consistent with each other. 10th guru did not write anything which was inconsistent with guru granth sahib.

For this reason, 10th guru's bani chopayee and Jap sahib are two of the daily nitnem banis of the sikhs. You cannot deny dasam granth or 10th gurus bani, such as "Jabe ban lagyo, tabe ross jagyo." Be careful, please, when you deny 10th guru or dasam granth.

Issue 2:
Can someone threaten life on cyber space ?

In law uttering threat on cyberspace is a criminal offense. It is just equal to face to face threat. This kind of threat is punishiable at law, one goes to jail, and this kind of behaviour is criminal at law. Sorry I cannot use soft language for a criminal who threatens someone's life.

Assuming that my life was not threatened, I did not use any force to repel, I only used words to warn the threat monger.

If I show any weakness to the aggressor by using soft rewarding words, weakness will invite aggression. I have right to self defense and preservation of my life according to any canon of law gurbani and dasam granth.

Issue 3: language: What kind of language can be used against the evil?

Gurbani mentions :

"Loon Harramee gunah gar begana allap matt ". (Guru granth sahib).

Thus in guru Granth sahib, Loon Harramee (Bastard), gunah gar (Evil criminal), begana, alap matt is used for the deserving person.

By the way read 10th gurus bani Jafar nama and look for the language he uses for Auranzeb.

Thus there is no prohibition on use of language for evil criminal person.

Thus I respectfully disagree with you that

1. My life was not threatned by cyber message because in law it is a threat.

2. one cannot use some measure short of force, such as harsh language, to repel threat.

10:59 PM, June 09, 2006  
Anonymous ash said...

to g
in reference to your comment on hair,
you mentioned earlier that you keep you beard flowing.why do you do that?coz according to your doctrine only hair on the head i.e kesh are to be kept unshorn and the rest i.e rom need not be bothered about. so your beard aka rom has no significance at all.right?

when guru sahib created khalsa he did it so that sikhs have a different identity from others and you can easily recognise a sikh among millions. if you do away with body hair ,according to your theory,[which includes beard ,
and facial hair in females]what identity is left of sikhs?will you still recognise them anywhere?
they will simply merge in the crowd of humanity.

what was guru sahibs motive behind making us keep our hair? a sikh is supposed to live under the divine will of god.the hair on the body are under the creative will of god.
a sikh is to maintain his sabat soorat under all circumstances.that is why hair on the head and hair on the feet have equal importance.if hair on any part of the body is shorn that is in defiance to god.

about your words about panj pyaare , let me remind you that guru sahib said that wherever you see my panj pyare you will see me. did he say that panj pyare are to literate only,or' must be trained in language history and religion'?

"pingal parbat paar pare
khal chatar bakita"

these lines of gurbaani mean that if god wants, he can make somebody without legs cross a mountain.he can make an absolute dumb person become a vidwaan.


guru harkrishan sahib kept his hand on the head of a mentally retarded ,deaf and dumb illiterate man and this man explained the meaning of whole gita to a learned pandit who had challenged guru sahib.
it is about faith ,g, it is about faith.

3:13 AM, June 10, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

To Ash,

GOD'S WILL:

With respect, I want to ask you, if cutting hair is in dafiance of God's will, then why do you cut nails ?

KESH:

The 10th guru's hukam pertains to be-adbee of kesh. For women Kesh are head hair; for men kesh are head and facial hair. Rest of body hair are rom. You need not cut them, its your wish, but their is nothing wrong if you cut them.

Be-adbee of hair occurs when a person keeps them unclean, unperfumed, ungroomed, undressed, or messy etc; Be-adbee does not merely occur by cutting or trimming them for grooming and dressing, this will be dignifying them, not dishonouring them. This is the true Sikh religion and its identity which 10th guru commanded and demanded when he ordered "guru ka sikh Keshan di Be-adbee na kare".

Making a person bald by shaving his head was considered dishonour in guru ji's days, so its clear that guru ji did not want Keshan di Be-adbee by shaving one's head.

PANJ PIYARE:

If any of the panj piyare are illetrates, dumb or lame, but they are vidwan or have power to heal by their miracle touch, and they can climb the mountains even when lame, then they are acceptable.

However the tregedy is that most of panj piyare cannot cure their own illness what to talk of curing the world's sickness. Most of the two legged panj piyare cannot cross a city, for their belly's are so big, what to talk of climbing mountains.

Many panj piyare cannot even read or write, having failed grade 10 many times, what to expect of reciting Gita from them.

In order to become guru's image, panj piyare must be "Piyare to guru", not merely any panj humans (e.g. evil, criminal, illetrates and so on).

How can a society be led by a grade 10 fail person ? In a society, where educated people are led by uneducated men, one will find a government of donkeys. It is about time we only follow either extraordinarily God gifted panj piyare (even if uneducated, like Sant Bhindranwale) or we follow educated and superbly wise panj piyare.

But if we want a govenment of donkeys, then we are free to choose uneducated men as our leaders !

4:20 AM, June 10, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

G ,ARE YOU AMRIT FROM THE EARLIER POSTS?\
YOU ARE CRAPPIN,,,, TALKING RUBBISH


HARRY PLS START FILTERING THESE COMMENTS, I BEG YOU
AND CONTINUE BLOGGING THERE ARE A MAJORITY OF US WHO STILL WANTS TO HEAR YOU



JOSH
KESHDHARI SIKH

11:27 AM, June 10, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

g
you need to be institutionalised.you make absolutely no sense.in fact you sound confused and deranged yourself.

7:00 PM, June 10, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ash and simran
i completely agree with you.but you are banging your head against a wall.g does not know what he is talking about.stop bothering with him.

7:03 PM, June 10, 2006  
Anonymous ash said...

to g
kesh are a living part of body.they comprise of living cells.
while nails are dead cells,nails are a way of discarding waste by the body.
nails are akin to sweat ,urine etc
while hair are a body organ
i am a doctor, i know what i am talking about.

and since when did the definition of kesh differ for man and woman?
and exactly where did guru sahib mention this?i told you earlier , please dont create things to suit your whims and fancies.

anon i understand what you are saying but if i stop answering back to him he will think that what he says is right and that i agree with him.that is the only reason i am replying back.although i completely agree , it feels like banging my head against a wall........

7:26 PM, June 10, 2006  
Anonymous Simran said...

"By the way read 10th gurus bani Jafar nama and look for the language he uses for Auranzeb."

I have read Zafarnama and Guru Ji does not use langauge that you use in your comments.

"Let me make it clear that dasam granth and guru granth are consistent with each other. 10th guru did not write anything which was inconsistent with guru granth sahib."

So, why did not Guru Gobind Singh Ji included Dasam Granth Bani in Guru Granth Sahib.

"If I show any weakness to the aggressor by using soft rewarding words, weakness will invite aggression. I have right to self defense and preservation of my life according to any canon of law gurbani and dasam granth."

Guru Arjan Dev Ji and Guru Teg Bhadur Ji did not show any weakness by accepting the will of Waheguru. I have great respect for all our Guru Jis. So, do not make statements that I deny Dasam Granth Ji or Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Again, in your case I have problem with calling somebody with very demeaning name and calling yourself son of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.
Why can't you accept that you could have used alternative way to answer Angad's comment.

8:17 PM, June 10, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

Simran ji,

I disagree with you that guru granth sahib and dasam granth uses sweet language for sinners and therefore I should use sweet language for the threat mongers. Here is evidence:

Guru ji uses language such as dusht and papee for harnakhsh in guru granth sahib and also in 10th guru's chopyee, "hamre dusht sabeh tum ghawoh", In Zafarnama he calls Aurangzeb a deceitful, oath breaker who will go to hell.

Thus, I will not use alternative words for a criminal nor reward him with sweet words, for this will encourage him to continue his bully business and murder threats.

A person who threatens someone's life without any reason deserves such words. I did not attack him nor said any bad words to him, so what right he had to threaten me? Rahter than responding to my post he threatened and therefore he rightfully deserved such lable for his criminal behaviour. If you (or me)will threaten someone in the midst of peacful discussion , you will also get the same lables, you will not get rewards for threatening people. NOWAY.

Weakness invites agression:

By the Death of 5th and 9th guru, the sikh gurus showed that weakness invites torture and killing. Thus 6th guru errected akal takhat, a simbol of political and military power, in front of harimandir, the spiritual center. And the 10th guru raised army to defend sikh nation.

Guru gobind singh was given gurship by the 9th guru. Any word from the mouth of guru is gurbani. Thus any bani from 10th guru's mouth in dasam granth, written by 10th guru, is gurbani and guru's hukam. So you cannot say you will follow only granth sahib and not dasam granth or 10th guru for that matter.

By the way dasam granth is itself larger than all the banis of all sikh gurus combined, so 10th guru kept it separate. But he included its banis in preperation of amrit and ordered sikhs to include chopayye and Jap sahib in daily nitnem. All words in dasam granth are consistent with granth sahib becasue dasam granth is also guru's gurbani. So follow it.

12:28 AM, June 11, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

Ash ji,

I respectfully disagree with you that hair are living organs and nails are dead cells. Infact both hair and nails are dead cells.

Before I accept your evidence as a doctor, I would like to ask your area of expertise. Clearly you ought to be a dermatologist if your evidence is even admissible.

Even if you are a dermatologist, other dermatologists and medical dictionaries and rest of the world's dematology authorities disagree with your claim. Here is the definition of hair from various medical authourities:

1.Hair is made up of dead cells that combine into thousands of strands. ...


2.Hair, which is made up of dead cells filled with keratin (a protein found in nails and outer skin).

3.It is the protein that also makes up the nails. ... The hair shaft is made up of dead cells that have turned into keratin and binding material, ...

Cotrary to world's dermatology authorities, you claim as follows:

"kesh are a living part of body.they comprise of living cells.
while nails are dead cells,nails are a way of discarding waste by the body.
nails are akin to sweat ,urine etc
while hair are a body organ
i am a doctor, i know what i am talking about".

Ash ji, please present your expertise and medical source of your claim. Or else accept the authourities mentioned above.

Kesh (definition for men and women):

Definition of men and women is logically different because biology of both is different, therefore, men have long kesh not only on head but on their face also whereas women do not have long kesh on their face. Long hair are Kesh, whereas short/tiny hair are "rom", which means small hair outlet. Quote from gurbani: "Gurmukh rom rom har dhayaveh". Here rom is refered to bodily hair. Note that gurbani does not say gurmukh kesh kesh har dhiyaveh because body hair are not kesh, therefore , they are rom.

Conclusion:
For all the above evidence and reasons, I conclude that you have failed to explain why we cut nails when it is in defiance of God's will to cut hair, according to you.

I assert that if we can cut nails , we can cut body hair also, because guru's hukam pertains to "kesh" only not "rom". "Guru ka sikh keshan di be adbee na kere" is the exact hukam. BeAdbee or dis-honour to Kesh means unclean, untidy, undressed, ungroomed, stingy hair, it does not merely means cutting hair for grooming and dignifying them. Grooming means honouring them , it does not mean dishonour to hair.

1:21 AM, June 11, 2006  
Anonymous Simran said...

g
"So you cannot say you will follow only granth sahib and not dasam granth or 10th guru for that matter."

I simply asked why is not Dasam Granth included in Guru Granth Sahib?

when did I write this statment. Why do you assume something totally different from what I wrote in my last comment.

7:50 PM, June 11, 2006  
Anonymous G said...

Simran ji,

Of course you said you follow dasam granth and 10th guru. And I "did not assume" otherwise than what you said.

I only said you "cannot" say you "will" follow guru granth sahib and not dasam granth or 10ht guru.

I didn't say , you "DID DENY" 10th Guru or dasam granth , but I said, you "CANNOT DENY" 10th guru or dasam granth. "Cannot deny" connotes future act, but "did deny" indicates past act.

Your allegation is, therefore, incorrect as I said you "cannot" deny 10th guru rather than saying you "did" infact deny..

AS to why 10th guru did not include dasam granth in guru granth sahib, there might be many reasons, but I gave you one of the reasons in my post, perhaps you missed , so I reporduce it again for your convenience:

"By the way dasam granth is itself larger than all the banis of all sikh gurus combined, so 10th guru kept it separate. But he included its banis in preperation of amrit and ordered sikhs to include chopayye and Jap sahib in daily nitnem. All words in dasam granth are consistent with granth sahib becasue dasam granth is also guru's gurbani. So follow it".

8:33 PM, June 11, 2006  
Blogger Patrick said...

high expectations and putting pressure on oneself are ingredients for disappointment.

just have fun, keep your eyes and ears open, and for crying out loud, don't say anything rash like "i will never date again, ever". sheesh, you are 28 and highly educated. don't close any doors.

now that you've given up, i'd not be surprised if something positive develops.

5:05 PM, July 13, 2006  
Blogger swamphen said...

Hi G

R u a lawyer of some kind?

Anyway I am glad to see that there is someone rationale out there (key humanistic characteristic, difference between an animal and human being-ability to rationalise.
Im impressed with your 'evidence-gathering' exercise.
it is people like you that will ensure that religions like Sikhism are relevant in society.

8:13 PM, July 24, 2006  
Blogger dianne_lone said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4:27 AM, August 04, 2006  
Blogger dianne_lone said...

Don't give up! I know someone is there for you. I have been looking for a guy to date in webdate_dot_com.. I know you'd find him soon. Don't lose hope.

4:28 AM, August 04, 2006  
Blogger jazy said...

Harry,
there is no easy answer to your question. But in my opinion, sikhs have to find the answer in ourselves first before blaming others for all the discrimination. I do not support any type of discrimination but you must realize that a few things get kidof irrelevent with time and it happened with every religion. But some of the religions are just too much resistive to any change. You know you can not except everyone to be highly intellectual to realize and even know about other religions and faiths. For most of the guys of low intelligence like me, a person or for that matter a thing which look different is a good source of entertainment or a way of giving vent to hidden hatered.

10:29 PM, October 07, 2007  
Blogger jazy said...

Harry,
there is no easy answer to your question. But in my opinion, sikhs have to find the answer in ourselves first before blaming others for all the discrimination. I do not support any type of discrimination but you must realize that a few things get kidof irrelevent with time and it happened with every religion. But some of the religions are just too much resistive to any change. You know you can not except everyone to be highly intellectual to realize and even know about other religions and faiths. For most of the guys of low intelligence like me, a person or for that matter a thing which look different is a good source of entertainment or a way of giving vent to hidden hatered.

10:30 PM, October 07, 2007  

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