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Monday, March 20, 2006

Kissed by a Rose

Years ago I had heard a song sung by Seal in a Batman movie. It goes something like:" Kissed by a Rose on the grey". Every now and then, the song would haunt me and I would hum it. It sounded nice but I never actually knew what it really felt like. Until now. Suddenly the words have acquired a larger than life form. They have floated out from the screen and seem to be flying out in 3 dimensions ever changing their colors. That is all I am going to say. The other thing I thought I would mention is the Spanish dictum:" A kiss without a moustache is like eating an egg without salt." And you know I have a really generous supply of sodium chloride. Enough said. But there is hope for us, Brothers. I also did some research on the art of kissing when you have a rather bushy moustache. There is not much stuff out there. My training in Science forces me to treat this as any other skill. I hope to master it soon and propose new techniques. "What a nerd!", she keeps telling me. Yup, that is right.

Anyways, I took C for a lunch with a few friends. There were friends, there were wives and there were kids. Overall, it was a good experience and I thought she liked it too. I am suprised that she thinks that the kids didn't like her too much. To my amazement, she thinks they like me a lot. Well, the reason is simple. To kids, I look like the Santa (Singh) in his teens. Kids are smart. They have
a better sense about people than adults.

For the past few posts, I have been focusing on my amorous affections. It is a fun thing and I am enjoying it. However, my religion and its issues are never far from my heart. The truth is that even though I am dating somebody now, I still have remnants of bitterness about the rejection of the turbaned Sikhs by majority of Sikh women. One of my very close friend related a personal poignant story which, I am afraid, I cannot tell until I have his permission. My own story is not that different. I will elaborate on this in the next post.

27 Comments:

Blogger Otpreka Singh said...

may i ask how your spiritual life is coming? i see your love life is doing much better.

1:05 AM, March 21, 2006  
Blogger Harry Singh said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

1:08 AM, March 21, 2006  
Blogger Harry Singh said...

C is 5 and a half feet tll. That is how much closer to God I feel.

4:02 AM, March 21, 2006  
Blogger Harry Singh said...

Thanks for asking

4:03 AM, March 21, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey harry. you know I was turned down today by a sikh girl coz of my turban. she said she does not like narrow minded people, and she considers sikhs who wear turbans very orthodox.
lol, so a bit of what you said might have some truth to it!
take care

2:51 PM, March 23, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i'm with a turban and full beard-------------------never got turned down by a gal b4--------------------------------------sikhs who are kesdharis do not mean that they are not good looking-------if you try anything is possible-------mostly kesdhari sikhs think that they are giving up good looks for the sake of religion and they then dont care about they looks and all------------------i had a diff perception in life------worked towards good looks-------even gals who said they will NEVER GO AFTER GUYS WITH TURBAN tried to come after me-----haha

8:38 AM, March 25, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

good for you. notice that I didnt say it was coz of my looks. the girl has this shit in her head that I am orthodox coz I wear a turban(we hardly know each other)
In anycase, she was certaily the one being narrow minded here ;-)

Yes, I agree with you, looks are never an issue IF you are well kept, care for your looks, and work towards them.

11:28 AM, March 25, 2006  
Blogger Amrit said...

I come from a Sikh family but I've never really appreciated having long hair and sporting a "pagri". May be it stems from the fact that my grownups, with their pseudo-religious antiques always confused me. Pagri and long hair were relevant at a particular time -- I'm not sure of even that -- but now they just seem cultish. I cut my hair when I was 17. I have no problem being called a Sikh because I'd rather be a Sikh from inside instead of superficial, outer appearances.

http://www.writingcave.com

7:34 AM, March 26, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amrit.
I think appearance a matter of personal choice. At this time, a good chunk of sikh population thinks your way, and another the other way.

I chose to keep my appearance coz I feel very attached to my community, and its an important part of me. How much am I a sikh from the "inside" is anybody's guess. I am pretty sure there are millions out there who are not keshdhari and better sikhs than me (probably including you).

I consider it ethically wrong to judge what religious values are relevant or irrelevant today. It is very clear that its hard to justify almost anything religious with logic, moreover, religion is something very personal. Those statements, i feel, do nothing except spawning bad feelings. So I tend to stay away from them. (You might want to consider the argument).

I guess, at the end of the day, the gurus probably wanted us to restore our dignity, our self respect and wanted us to be more sensitive, passionate and respecting humans. That is probably the only thing that matters- pagri, or no pagri.

Chardi kala.

12:22 PM, March 26, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Amrit -

It never ceases to amaze me, this "I'd rather be a Sikh from the inside" justification/rationalization.

The Gurus laid out certain criteria, certain codes of conduct, certain physical articles of faith for the Khalsa. These criteria, codes, physical articles go hand-in-hand with the internal spiritual journey of a SIKH.

If one is a Sikh, they adopt the wisdom/understanding of their Guru (gurmat) in lieu of their ego-driven thinking (manmat). This is not a cherry-picking excercise where one picks some of the Gurus commands and rejects others. That kind of excercise is completley counter to Gurbani which advocates total/complete acceptance of the Guru and the Guru's 'kehna'.

If you're happy having cut your hair and having rejected the physical articles of faith commanded by the Gurus, good for you, you are entitled to do what you like. HOWEVER, do not have the ignorant/arrogant audacity to sweep away the Guru's hukums as a mere superficiality.

And honestly, I'm trying to be gentle in my post - God only knows how tired and infantile this "bakeeya dia galla shado, dil saaf hona chaheeda" proposition sounds to ears that hear it again and again.


P.Singh

10:47 PM, March 26, 2006  
Blogger Amrit said...

And honestly, I'm trying to be gentle in my post - God only knows how tired and infantile this "bakeeya dia galla shado, dil saaf hona chaheeda" proposition sounds to ears that hear it again and again.

That's because most people don't even understand what being true Sikh is. I have seen Sikhs, following the "gurmat" -- whatever mat it is -- having long kesh and wearing kilometer-long pagris beating their wives and children, fornicating, boozing, embezzling the funds of the gurudwaras, eating meat in kilos, and doing all sorts of things definitely not mentioned in the gurumat. In most of the cases, such Sikhs are nothing but a massive charade. Soora so pehchaniye jo lade deen ke het -- that's what makes you a true Sikh, not your long hair and big pagri.


I don't want to disrespect anybody, but the Gurus never wanted us to follow symbolic nuances, and if you think they did, you follow the Sikh scriptures blindly without understanding their true import.

That kind of excercise is completley counter to Gurbani which advocates total/complete acceptance of the Guru and the Guru's 'kehna'.

I don't think the Guru ever meant that. He was too intelligent to say such things -- in fact he is my true hero. Many people have distorted the original teachings of the Guru to misdirect Sikhs. Any right-thinking guru will never want his disciples to follow something without questioning.

This is not a cherry-picking excercise where one picks some of the Gurus commands and rejects others.

Cherry-picking exercise? What are you trying to say man? Please don't reduce our respected Guru to the level of the "Godfather". This is not a street gang my friend. Please grow up.

I consider it ethically wrong to judge what religious values are relevant or irrelevant today. It is very clear that its hard to justify almost anything religious with logic, moreover, religion is something very personal. Those statements, i feel, do nothing except spawning bad feelings. So I tend to stay away from them. (You might want to consider the argument).

I totally agree. But I think open debate is good for every religion. Look what Muslims are doing to their religion. They are so destructive just because they don't want to question their beliefs. We are not sheep, we are humans; we cannot follow things blindly. Sikhism is one of the most modern and forward-looking religions of the world because it encourages you to learn ("Sikh"). Learning a few lines from the Guru Granth Sahib or preaching people about having long hair and wearing pagris don't make you a Sikh. All these things are a matter of personal choice.

Amrit
http://www.writingcave.com

12:29 AM, March 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I totally agree. But I think open debate is good for every religion. Look what Muslims are doing to their religion. They are so destructive just because they don't want to question their beliefs. We are not sheep, we are humans; we cannot follow things blindly. Sikhism is one of the most modern and forward-looking religions of the world because it encourages you to learn ("Sikh"). Learning a few lines from the Guru Granth Sahib or preaching people about having long hair and wearing pagris don't make you a Sikh. All these things are a matter of personal choice.

Amrit.
sure. discussions are good, but I have learned the hard way that religion and politics should not be discussed except among the closest of friends (even then sporadically). You might differ- and I respect that. The reason is- it is hard to discuss this with a clear open mind, and it is easy for anybody to get inflamed(you are seeing the results right here, in a previous post!).

What makes you a sikh is best decided for you, by you alone- it is extremely personal, and there is no reason to impose your belief on others. If we initiate a discussion today about the relevance of pagri and external symbolism, it will be irrelevant and spliter the community. It is true that wearing a pagri does not make neither me, or anybody else a sikh. But that is what I (and probably you) believe. It is equally true that there are many sikhs who gave up their identity, and are still worse than most others.

I probably went through a similar phase as you when I was a teenager, I CHOSE to stick to my identity. It was an informed choice, you made your informed choice (I hope) by giving up the symbolism.
My reasoning was (and still is) some thing like this. Wearing a turban is not irrelevant, it is my identity, it is my culture, and its a part of me. It does not have a negative impact on my career, my happiness, my family life in anyway, infact it adds to the quality of my life in several ways. I saw no reason to give it up. I do not know why you made the other choice- but a sikh teenager generally has to go through a lot more shit than the general populace. I have known many sikhs who gave up their identity because they were laughed upon, they thought girls dont give a shit about them, and the cannot do sports etc. etc. Almost any teenager goes through that phase when he has a complex about something or the other. It is completely normal. Giving up your identity, in my opinion, because of that is wrong.

my 2 cents worth
sincere regards
Anonymous.

9:22 AM, March 27, 2006  
Blogger Amrit said...

Anonymous (please mention your name) said:
I have known many sikhs who gave up their identity because they were laughed upon, they thought girls dont give a shit about them, and the cannot do sports etc. etc.

Fortunately I didn't have to go through all that. I cut my hair because personally -- personally -- they were solving no purpose for me. Perhaps I didn't need an identity, and even if I needed one, it had to transcend the outer appearance. To exist I don't want to be part of some faith. Again, my own choice and I think I shouldn't impose my thoughts like that. Besides, I think we should better let Harry compile his romantic experiences here; that's what he probably created this blog for. Thank you for answering so patiently :-).

Amrit
http://www.writingcave.com

10:57 AM, March 27, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Grow up indeed...

Yes, yes, there are those who have taken the Guru's amrit and then live counter to the Guru's hukum ie. drinking, lying, drugs etc. These people exist whether one has taken amrit or not - so whats your point? That because some amritdharis are donkeys in the garb of tigers, all amritdharis are to be painted with the same brush?

Yes - cherry-picking is an apt term for the practice of picking those ideals of a religion which suit one's own feelings/thinking and rejecting or ignoring those tenets which do not - there is no room for that in Sikhi. If one can only adhere to some tenets while trying to progress towards an adherence to all, that is a far cry different than accepting some and rejecting others as inconsequential.

While your post is littered with "I think", with all due respect, your opinions mean naught in the face of what the Guru explicitly has stated. Consider the following:
1. Guru Gobind Singh ji's own hukums on the issue of rehit are clear and there is no expiry date on Sache Patshah's hukums.
2. The SGPC Sikh Code of Conduct (which is considered quite lax by many) was penned after years of serious and vigourous discussion of gurbani, puratan rehit maryadas etc by scholars and academics - the place and function of the 5ks was never in doubt.
3.What does the Guru himself say about the importance of rehit:
"Rehit bina nehi Sikh kahave" : "Without rehit, one is not a Sikh."
4. Then, of course, there is Bhai Nand Lal's rehitnama which is accepted completely and in whole by all scholars and academics of Sikhi.

So, dear friend, on the one hand, we have what "you" think, and on the other hand we have the Guru's explicit hukums, the treatment of those hukums by his contemporary Sikhs, and the consolidation of those hukums by learned scholars after years of discussion. In this light, no offense meant, your "thoughts" are insignificant at best.

And of course, no one is asking you to approach Sikhi blindly. However, a careful study of gurbani coupled with an analytical examination of rehit maryada established by the Gurus paints a pretty clear picture of what is expected of Sikhs.

While personal choice is great when it comes to picking and choosing between ice-cream flavors, when it comes to Sikhi, personal choice is completely subordinate to what the Guru has stated on the issue.

regards,
P.Singh

ps. To clarify, everyone travels on the path of Sikhi at their own pace. Some of these travelers may be clean-shaven, others amrit-dhari; however, regardless of where they are on their journey, there is a need to acknowledge and accept the ideals laid out by the Guru and aspire to accept all of the Guru's hukums, not just the ones which suit our own mindset at the moment.

12:51 PM, March 27, 2006  
Blogger josh----ultimate wildfire said...

Amrit, I have seen so many guys like you around......they give up their kes, turban and everything and they try to justify themselfs ......you are doing exactly that.......sikhi is an experiences, you said you found no purpose of your kes etc because you did not try/did not want to find anything significant in it.......for me, even a day without any of my 5ks my life will go haywire.....you i guess, was not lucky enough to experience any thing......i'm offended when you say this
''''''''I come from a Sikh family but I've never really appreciated having long hair and sporting a "pagri". May be it stems from the fact that my grownups, with their pseudo-religious antiques always confused me. Pagri and long hair were relevant at a particular time -- I'm not sure of even that -- but now they just seem cultish. I cut my hair when I was 17. I have no problem being called a Sikh because I'd rather be a Sikh from inside instead of superficial, outer appearances'''''''' I suggest you DO NOT comment in things you do NOT KNOW.....you dont like your sikhi appearance, keep it TO YOUR SELF, don't try to downgrade anything here......dont pull a few lines from gurbani and try to justify anything...5ks is the integral part of sikhi, and no way you can say you are a good sikh etc by no accepting the fundamental principals of sikhi .........if you cannot give up your outer appearance in the name of sikhi, then i guess you are ........I think nothing can change your mind and what you are thinking IS JUST WRONGGGGGGGG,

7:04 AM, March 31, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

just a comment to amrit. it is a fact that most ppl want to follow the majority, not matter what culture, religon or region they belong to. thus those "sikh" who cut/shave are not finding their independent identity but actually ignoring the true identity for a modern, western, white identity. cutting hair in almost all religions was at one point a sign of vanity, as jesus did not cut his hair. turbans have been a sign or royalty throughout the world and continue to be. today bolly/hollywood dominant the scene around the world and they set the standards of beauty and girls always run after what is popularized. i remember a sikh woman in 1997 i met who cut her hair and was forced to marry a mona, cut haired sikh. she said that she could not even stand to look at his face because she only saw a man with turban and beard as attractive. this woman was the productive of a period where everyman in punjab wore a turban. that was the popular ideal then.
my main point here being that fashions, trends come and go, but turban and beard is eternal for the sikhs. merely wearing and turban or having a beard does not make you a better sikh, but it is something that always forces us to be different, or question who we are. just as blacks can not get rid of their skin color, sikhs can not get rid of their turbans and beards, atleast are not supposed to. blacks have been through hell and back cuz of their color, and sikhs have been through countless tragedies due to their physical identity. our identity forces society to become better, it forces ppl, companies, teachers, institutions to treat equally even if they might find us repulsive. we motivate, encourage equality, justice and freedom of expressoin and life. having a turban and beard requires not logical explaination, it is who we are and it is who we will stay because our Gurus created a tradition which we follow, our acestors gave their lives for their hair and turbans so we will give up our comforts to thank them, to show them respect by continuing to wear our turbans.

again, weak ppl follow the masses, all ppl commit sin, but a few rise above this and find the truth within themselves and follow the way of the great ones. this path is timeless, universal, and never follow the masses.

by the way i hate when ppl say "well you turban ppl , amritdhair ppl drink/beat wives, etc....i wanna ask dont ppl who cut their hair do that? yes ppl who are amritdhari should not be doing that, but how do they represent the countless others who are living great lives as sikhs, are all christians perfect? are all hindus sinless? when is a any group of ppl sinless? the idea is to become so. and according to sikhi, the mind affects the body and the body affects the mind. the two cannot be seperated. hair is give by god, men were given beards, and hair has a natural end point, there is logic if you look for it, but faith is not based on logic.

thanks
A struggling Sikh woman

2:48 AM, April 05, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

cutting hair in almost all religions was at one point a sign of vanity, as jesus did not cut his hair.

It's amazing to see with what stupid justifications people can come up with just to prove a stupid point. Now you guys are desperately harping without any logical reasoning: you don't even know how to speak for your own religion.

And it's interesting to observe how threatened people feel with different thoughts. You people simply cannot digest the fact that despite not sporting long hair Amrit is probably more Sikh than you guys can ever dream of being. Having a complex? I'm sure you are.

Even the Taliban promotes beards; does it mean all men should have beards? As he said, you guys need to grow up. Religion is something deeply personal; you don't need to grow hair to prove your religious identity. I have nothing against bearded or haired (may the hair be anywhere :-)) Sikhs but it's plain stupid to say that "keshdhari" Sikhs are more Sikh than the ones who cut their hair.

sikhs have been through countless tragedies due to their physical identity

OK, well, what's the point? I won't even sacrifice the tip of my nail to protect my Sikh "identity". Yes, I can die for my country; I can die for my community if there is some genuine danger; but dying for keeping hair on my head. Nonsense, simply nonsense. I know some people will start breast beating about those countless Sikhs and their children (I know Guru Gobind Singh's children died for their faith) who were cut into pieces because they wouldn't abandon the "path" but hey, that's what they wanted to do; it was their choice. It is not my choice so stop imposing it on me. I know where my God is (definitely not under a pagri).

--A Sikh woman who proudly cuts her hair and shows a finger to those who have a problem with it.

5:17 AM, April 05, 2006  
Blogger grey said...

To -
A Sikh woman who proudly cuts her hair and shows a finger to those who have a problem with it.

Gold Bless you ...!!!

- (A turban Wearing Sikh guy)

1:41 PM, April 05, 2006  
Anonymous R. Singh said...

"--A Sikh woman who proudly cuts her hair and shows a finger to those who have a problem with it."

My God, this is Kalyug no doubt.

4:34 PM, April 05, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i am a "sikh" woman and i dont proudly cut my hair but i do cut my hair. amrit, no one is forcing you to keep you hair, obviously. i think you feel an insecurity because you know you are wrong. i am a very westernized "sikh" woman but i recognize that in order to be a sikh i must keep my hair and be a true sikh inside out.

i think the west as really made you think you are something you are not. you think you are liberated but i realize your kind because i am your kind (if you are a female in fact). you say you would not die for your Sikh identiy, and that is exactly why you dont have one, and you try to create one by having none. you use your limited knowledge mixed with a few decent english words and a lot of shame to make a point that gets lost before you stary typing. you seem very offended and angry when no on really cares what you do with your life, so let those who chose to live like real Sikhs have theirs. what the Gurus wanted is very clear if you read Sikh history, SGGS, and dastar (i prefer to say instead of pagri) and kes is the fundamental part of any sikhs identity; take it or leave it but thats how it is.

you said you would die for your community...i dont think you have one? community of lost feminists? community of "americans"? country..so you would die for your country hmmm...so america is your country? well last time i checked non-whites werent allowed to take a piss in the same place as whites just 40 years ago. i dont know which country/community you belong to or will die for...but i know for sure there aint any that would do the same for you, except the Sikh community. you will continue to "liberate" yourself but will only create greater insecurity.
no body will point a finger at you, you are not worth even their glance. stop coming to sikh blogs, stick with your liberating works and find your identity and go fight for it.
becuz i am a sikh woman, a stuggling sikh woman, and for that reason i will glance and point at you if you disrespect my religion, my brothers, my Guru ji.
You seem to be very pretentious so to put you in your place i must say: my academic background is most likely much superior than yours, i am probablly 100 times more attractive than you (well I do model occasionally)and im pretty sure that your hair cuts dont help your ugliness. sorry for these last cheap comments, but you really deserve them. i hope you stop coming to this blog, why do you?

A struggly Sikh woman,
who cuts off the finger of any who point at her. (humbly)

4:10 AM, April 07, 2006  
Blogger Amrit said...

you say you would not die for your Sikh identiy, and that is exactly why you dont have one, and you try to create one by having none.

Hello ma'am! Excuse me! I didn't write the cooment you assumed I wrote. I never post as anonymous. Not only that, I always post a link to my blog.

Besides I'm in India.

6:05 AM, April 08, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

whatever....thats you...look at the hate and same sort of arrogant attitude, even the writing style seems similar...u can say thats not you..but im sure its you...and im actually sure now that you are a hindu man.

and your site...writing cave sucks as soon as i see hindus oriented writing i just feel like throwing up. why dont you stop coming to this blog and go worship a stone dick or something.

9:14 PM, April 08, 2006  
Blogger Amrit said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

2:36 AM, April 09, 2006  
Blogger Amrit said...

but im sure its you...and im actually sure now that you are a hindu man.

I had posted a response to it and later on I deleted it. This is not the way I'd like to interact with people so if you extend this thread, be assured I won't be following it. Such discussions have no end and obviously they leave behind a sour taste. Neither you are going to agree with me nor is it going to be the other way, so we'll get in a needless tailspin.

Regarding the comment you think I wrote, I again stress I didn't write it because I'm always proud of what I express hence I never post as anonymous. If you think the style is the same, well, it's may be that the inherent feeling is same.

Anyway I won't be visiting this thread again and even if the subject is raised elsewhere -- on this blog -- I won't be responding. I've said whatever I wanted to say and that is the end of it as far as I'm concerned. I'll keep visiting the blog though.

Amrit
http://www.writingcave.com

3:25 AM, April 09, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yes and we have a verdict: amrit is a hindu male...i hate usually putting hindu and male together cuz i have yet to meet a hindu thats manly enough to be called a male...but for the current issue on hand...amrit you are a hindu "man".

9:00 PM, April 09, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i'm looking for the "struggling sikh woman." i l love your responses, you're amazing, you turn me on - i'm going to come back to look for you in a few days... pls respond if you're still on this blog.

Inawe Singh

4:16 AM, April 14, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Struggling Sikh Woman, you are a credit to us all, please keep on being as you are, wonderful and strong. Vaheguru!

A. Singh

11:07 PM, August 07, 2006  

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